February 12, 2008

Listen Up:  Let's go through the features that you're getting as you go from an AVR-4308 to an AVR-5308. What are you paying another $2,500 or $2,700 for?

Jeff Talmadge:  What I've been saying to help people figure out differences in the line is that the 5308 is actually the replacement for the 5803 from four and a half years ago. The 5805, as crazy as it was, was an aberration of the receiver line, and it did a great job for what it was. But, to go back to a seven-channel, high-end receiver is really what the 5308 does and, in essence, is the real replacement for the original 5803.

That being said, what are you getting at twice the price is the reference receiver from then on in the 5800 line. We took the 4806 and the 5805 and basically molded them together to create a 5308. We got rid of the ten channels and went to seven channels, but it's based on the same build principles that we held with the 5800 series.

So, when your customers look at the back panel images, immediately they will say: ‘Okay, these things aren't built the same at all.’ And that's the key. It's based on the pure audio platform we developed for the 5800 series years ago. The whole audio side has been taken to that next level. Customers that know Denon know the 5800 series. We've always had that model. That's always been close to twice the price of a 4000 series. And that continues.

If we look at wireless and all that stuff, they're included in both. But, when you get to the 5308, you get enhanced switching of six HDMIs. You get six components, plus B and C — digital ins, component ins and outs. You get zone 2 of conversion to component and HD switching to zone 2, which the 4308 cannot do, obviously. You get a 7-channel amplifier. But, when you look at the details of it, and many of your customers do, you're going to find 9 or 12 channels of pre-amp output. It is a 9.3 receiver. Now, it only has 7 power amps, but, if someone wants to use that as a pre-amp, which many people do, instead of the new AVP1, they can use that for 9.3 with three subwoofer outputs assignable and things like that. The 4308 has none of that capability.

LU:  Now, what is somebody going to do with 9.3?

JT:  Who knows? Who knows what people did with 5805s with 10 amplifiers and its configuration, but many people figured out things to do. And I said the same thing about the 5805 years ago. We have surround A and surround B and all these different things. And you can now create dedicated array channels. So, if you have a longer theater, you don't have to be stuck with one speaker for four rows of chairs. You can have two speakers or three or whatever.

LU:  So you can tell it what goes to each of those nine channels?

JT:  It is fully assignable, just like the 5805 was.

LU:  You've got multiple surround channels or bi-amp front or something?

JT:  You’ve got it. Say you want to use the seven channels built in for the front three and the surround backs and you start to bi-amp the front three, okay, so there's six channels gone; you've got one left. Maybe you go to outboard amplifiers to use for whatever other channels you want. It's all about configuration. Would the majority of people use it with that particular receiver? I don't know. But the option's there.

Now, when people look at the images, the AVP and the 5308 share the same chassis. So box size is the same — even weight is the same, almost to the exact tenth of a pound, which is kind of funny, since you're talking about a pre-amp processor/controller versus a receiver. And when we start posting the images of what we've done to the inside the AVP, people will get a sense of what $7,000 in a pre-amp from Denon means. It's been ten years since we had a pre-amp — the old AVP 8000. And it's been requested over and over again.

These models, the 5300 and AVP, share nothing, except for the box. When you talk about internals, a pre-amp having dual toroidal power transformers, I don't know of any. Plus, the AVP has six other power supplies. So audio and everything else is separate. Twelve channels, again, but they're XLRs as well as RCAs. You're talking quad DACs.

LU:  For all the channels?

JT:  For all the channels.

LU:  And it's balanced circuitry?

JT:  Balanced circuitry. It even has balanced analog inputs for our friends that still have outboard DACs that want to do that kind of stuff. But the AVP really takes us to another level. I mean, using all the expertise of digital and analog technology, the 5308 does share some, but you take it to a new level with quad PCM 1796 DACs per 12 channels. Dual differential. You get a differential volume control. You get differential A to D. It's just beyond whatever else is out there for the price. I mean, honestly, from a competitor standpoint, we've had a lot of customers use 4000- and 5000-level receivers as a preamp because there's really nothing even in the pre-amp world that can compete with them. So now we've decided, hey, we're going to have that preamp market. We had sort of let that go. Now we're getting back into it.

And, although many of your customers will use a 5300, that's great, too. Also, with the 5300 and AVP, one of the key things that I know a lot of your customers are looking at is the video side of it, because both of them will feature the silicon optics Realta chipset for A to D, taking analog sources up to HDMI, up to 1080p scaling, with the best noise reduction circuitry. And, they'll get color controls and things like that. But, with both of them, we'll even take a 1080p source. So, if you come from a Blu-Ray or an HD DVD player, the customer can go in and add noise reduction circuitry for that signal. There is no one else that does that.

LU:  So, video-wise, they both have the Realta.

JT:  Correct. The latest Realta chip will be in both products. We use Faroudja now in everything down from the 4308 to the 2308, and it's the same Faroudja chipset but the high-end version — the 2310 chipset, which is fully adjustable. One of the things Faroudja does very, very well is take analog and make it digital. And that's what we're talking about in a receiver. We're not talking digital to digital; we're talking analog to digital.

LU:  It makes perfect sense. You've got a VCR, you've got a satellite, you've got all kinds of analog sources coming into that receiver.

JT:  Correct. And you read most test reports, and you test this for Faroudja and Silicon Optics. And, if it's an analog-based source coming in the analog output of the DVD player, Faroudja does extremely well after the fact. And that's what Faroudja bet everything on back in the day with the original line doublers and everything else. You take a video source, and you make it, scale it, and do whatever. Realta and Reon are the latest generations of all that. And, while they are in broadcast studios, they really are there to take standard def to high def at a broadcast point. That’s where they've made their names. While they're still very good, we like the ability of knowing that we can program it to what we believe should be the best [picture], and that's why we use them.

Now, will you see Reon from us? Probably. There's a new Reon coming, and we're looking at it. The current version is not something that we decided to use in the current models because of the flexibility that Faroudja gives us currently. Next year you never know. Things change.

So with the AVR-5308, I guess, that's just good news from everybody. All your 5308s came in, and they've probably all gone out already. That's very nice to hear. By the way, one thing that was added late, and I want to make sure that everyone knows it, is that the 5308 does have Rhapsody service built into it.

LU:  Oh, cool. Now, is there a firmware upgrade for the 4308?

JT:  Officially, no. For the 3808 and 4308, we don't have any real plans to change them this year, to make a new model. They're so advanced right now, what more could we do? But, because we have that rare opportunity of using the Web and our server technology to update them and upgrade them, let's look at that and make it better just with customers who have it already. Rhapsody is one of those things.

The Ethernet server technology that we've incorporated into the receivers allows us to do other things, both from the consumer standpoint and from your custom side, because the remote access is now live. There's three ways the customer has to start the process — four ways. One, make the phone call. ‘I have a problem. My kids were at home over the weekend.’ Then, after that, the installer, while on the phone goes, ‘Well, I need you to do one of three things. A, go up to the front unit, press these two buttons for me. Two, in the remote control that you've installed in that system, there's a Denon help button that they've programmed a macro that we have. Mr. Customer, go to page 3 of your AVR. See that Denon help button? Press that for me.’ They press that button, the receiver on its own goes to the server, initiates the sequence, the server sends the installer the e-mail, the e-mail contains the link. He clicks on the link and goes right into the receiver while he's still on the phone. And he reads in real-time what's going on by the Web browser. And he can do the old, ‘Oh, the [REC Monitor] button's on.’ Click. Turn if off. We don't have that switch anymore, but you understand what I'm saying. Once he's done configuring it doing Audyssey or Audyssey Pro, he can store all that data into an HTML file on his laptop. And, if he's online, he just brings up the customer file, zips it right back into the receiver, and it's back to where it was when he left originally. So that's huge.

Now, at the same time, while that's been activated, he can go into the customer file that he's installed of those receivers and register it on the server and find out from the server, ‘Hey, there's an update for this receiver. Would you like to do that? There's an upgrade for this receiver. Would you like to do that?’ He never has to go to the house. Now, obviously, for an upgrade, there's a charge, and that will be worked out separately. But that value add, we think, is huge.

And, obviously, many of your consumers, as soon as they bought 3808s and 4308s, they found that check for update function. We get phone calls, like, ‘It's not active yet.’ Just turn the receiver off and back on, and it's fine. And, of course, we get those rounds of updates. The major updates are probably shipping now or already in. It's new, and there's some kinks in the upgrade process, but the fact is the customer doesn't have to pull it out, and you don't have to go get it, and so on, and so forth. And now, with the new updates, the receiver doesn't reset itself.

LU:  Now, does it do it automatically, or do I need to go in and check for updates?

JT:  You need to do it manually. The automatic process, obviously, is intriguing, but the devices like PS3 and X-Box are not updated when new stuff comes out. It's up to the consumer to do that. If a new update would come along that just dramatically changes the DSPs or something that may reset the receiver, we would want that to happen automatically. That's something we would forewarn and say, ‘Listen, we have this new update. It does these ten things.’

LU:  So you have the capacity to send out like a prompt or something from your end?

JT:  Not to the receiver. No. This will be online. We'll have them go to the Website. We're in the process of getting the Website redone. That will have pretty much like a firmware update page, similar to like PS3 has, that lets people know how to check for firmware versions on the unit.

LU:  These are rolling production changes, as well, I would assume? So the guy who buys a 3808 that came off the line today would have less updates to do than the guy who bought one earlier?

JT:  Absolutely.

LU:  And the guy who bought one, like myself, when they first came out, when I do plug it into the Ethernet, it's probably going to see numerous things there to update.

JT:  Yeah. In that particular case, you have one that just says, ‘Check for updates.’ After the updates are done, it has two new functionality features in there. It will say ‘check for update,’ not ‘add update.’ So it would actually go to the server. I did it at the Denver store last night. The 4308 they had on display just said, ‘Firmware latest.’ Done. So it would be, ‘Okay. I don't need to do anything.’ Plus, we added a new line item and said, ‘Add new feature’ in that particular area. Updates and feature upgrades are two different processes. That was part of the first two updates.

LU:  At one point, I believe, and I want to clarify this, you mentioned that you were recommending that updates be done hardwired, even if you did have wireless capabilities. Did I understand that correctly?

JT:  Yes. That is true. They can do it whichever way they want to, obviously. We're talking about a 50-minute update in many cases. And, all the interferences that can happen with Wi-Fi. It doesn't take much, especially with the amount of data being sent here… It's just a recommendation. If you’re confident your signal strength's going to be there or you're not going to have a power outage, then you can do it wirelessly. But the recommendation from the engineers in Japan is it's just better to do it hardwired.

LU:  So, even a customer with the 4308 should maybe have a real long cable? And it wouldn't be a crossover cable. Is that correct?

JT:  Just a straight cable.

LU:  Run it to the router.

JT:  Yep.

LU:  I'll use myself as an example. My receiver's downstairs; my router's upstairs. Just run it up the stairs, plug it into the back of the router, and then press the check updates?

JT:  Yes.

LU:  Okay. But it's not a crossover cable; it's just a plain, old, long cable?

JT:  It's like hooking up another device. The only time you use a crossover cable with our stuff is if you go from the laptop directly to the unit without a router. So, if you're not using a hub or router, then it's a crossover cable, because it's basically two computers talking to each other. When you go through a router or hub, it's just straight cables.

LU:  Okay. You went into the AVP a bit. Are there any other features that we should highlight?

JT:  With those points we talked about, it's all about the best possible sound, period. And going pro-sumer (you know, professional/consumer with XLRs) was a big request from the field. We just gave the engineers free rein. Regardless of what the price is, we'll sell it. We demo-ed a CD and it sounded spectacular! I think, obviously, we have some great speakers, but the amplifier is the next part.

LU:  Let's talk about the amplifier.

JT:  The POA-A1, HDCI — a lot of alphabetical things there. It's our first stand-alone amplifier in about eight years. The old POA-S1 was probably the last thing in this type of range, and it doesn't cost as much. Some may look at it and go, ‘Okay, that's a bit crazy.’ I mean, it's a 10-channel amplifier. But, again, once your customers see the back panel and figure out we've left enough configuration there with bi-amping, with bridging capabilities, a lot of guys are asking: ‘150 by 10 for $7,000?’ It's rated at 8 ohms, conservatively. We are rating it at 4 ohms with UL listing, which is very rare. You hardly ever see that. It doubles its output power if you bridge it into 4 ohms, like 500 watts a channel into five. So it leaves the customer with a lot of configuration capabilities. They can bi-amp their front three. They can bi-amp all five. They can do whatever they want and have more power.

You look at the back panel, and it's a blade design amplifier. And by the way, it's not digital; it's good, old-fashioned analog, which is part of it's 160-pound bulk. There are only 10 truly individual channels. We have 8 power supplies and 5 fans. It only needs a 15-amp circuit for what it can do. And it has communication capabilities. It has feedback for Crestron. It has its own RS-232 port, which you don't find on many amplifiers. It has a communication system with the pre-amp by itself. So we'll fire it on and fire it off, not just by triggers but actually in some communication capability. And we may add some other feedback down the road, since the AVP's updatable using the server. So, as a pair at $14,000 for the AVP and POA-A1, you're going to have some interesting things to look at.

Also, both the 5308 and the AVP have one other interesting legacy from the 5805 and that is you can run two theaters off of the receiver and the pre-amp. Now, you need another device to do that. Say they both have 4-zone capability. The fourth zone is a digital output. Now, unlike the 3843, which also had digital outputs, this one's multichannel, so you can run Dolby and DTS into there and then out to another receiver. But all the control is based on the main one, so you don't have to worry about controlling that second one if it's for a media room or bedroom or whatever.

Also, the AVP adds one other little caveat that was requested by many: transducer output. One of the subwoofers can be reconfigured to a transducer output. So, for D-Box chairs and Clark Synthesis tactile drivers, bass shakers — whatever they may be from any manufacturer — we have a transducer output. So that's new this year as well.

Interview continues on next page

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